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Kagura Nikon Infinity Enterprises Odyssey.	Posted - 2008.04.01 10:30:00 - [1] Well I for once only think tons of titans together need to be "nerfed". Well Something like First titan deal 85% of damage they do now ( well yes I think they currently need a SMALL nerf. BS SHOUDL survive witha single DC on MY opiniom, but barely). Then each titan detonated in same grid in a span of 60 minutes is target of stack nerf. So the 4th or 5th titan woudl not even kill cruisers. ------------------------------------------------- If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
Kagura Nikon Infinity Enterprises Odyssey.	Posted - 2008.04.01 10:38:00 - [2] Originally by: Dianabolic Originally by: Malachon Draco Originally by: Dianabolic I find it hilarious that everyone else is using their titans. MM and RA and everyone else... and yet, the only people whining about it, are the goons. Everyone else is busy trying to trap them and work around it. There's a lesson there, for all of you. Stop turning this into COAD FFS. This is not about BoB. I know Goons are doing stupid things, I don't give a ****. This is not about BoB even though you seem to believe everything HAS TO BE ABOUT YOU. It is not, get over yourself. Tell me Diana, how do you see 0.0 in a year from now. Can I get a prediction from you how many titans there will be and how that will affect 0.0 gameplay? Malachon, I've engaged in discussions about titans in the past. I agree they're broken. I agree they should be stations / capital killing behemoths. I don't think the dd should do "damage", I DO think it should just be an oversized BOMB (ie, sucks cap in its aoe etc etc etc). What I don't like, and I continue to laugh at - especially at people such as yourselves who say "this isn't about bob" is that the ONLY people WHINING about it are those that are fighting us. How about, less whining? The WAY that people are going about this is what I don't like, Malachon, but unfortunately it seems to work, so I dunno. well this is not supposed to be a political discussion. Otherwise would be "nerf bob titan "etc.. The only politics involved shoudl be situational. THe fact is undeniable, no one can blame bob for usign so many titan they can and their home was at stake. But is also undeniable the most antecipated and likely msot epic confrotnation of eve history became very anti climatic for MOST peopel involved because of titan spammage. For a secodn ignore current war. No future wars at least shoudl have to suffer from such anti climatic thing. Your view of titans is much better than CCP one, by far far far. CCp can solve that or find a magical way that we dotn lage for 30 second when trying to warp out on the sight of a titan. BTW not only goons complain in that. Tri frequently complains on MM titan collection too. So the this iss only goons spinage is a little bit of spinage itself, somethign we don 't need here. ------------------------------------------------- If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
Kagura Nikon Infinity Enterprises Odyssey.	Posted - 2008.04.01 10:43:00 - [3] Originally by: Kerfira Originally by: Vaal Erit I think Kerfira really thinks that blobbing is lame and that Titans are the only successful counter to a blob of ships. This is a GOOD point. But, instead I think that a non-capital anti-blob platform would be best as then everyone has an equal footing to kill blobs. Killing unorganized blobs is awesome, I love it. But let's make it a bit move challenging than warp to alt -> pres butan shall we? If you can come up with something for that, I'm all for it. I'm not pro-titan as such (though I do like having things to strive for in a game), but I am anti-blob! I simply don't think that lagging out a system with a blob should ever be a valid way to win a battle. Titans are currently to ONLY possible counter in-game against that. Titans only ncreased blobage in this game. Worse jsut made it capital online and to kill even 6-7 carrier together you NEED a bob. They increase blobage because only thing taht can eal witht itans are only killable by blobing. THe resolution of blobign wont come by area of effect damage. Only way to solve blob is giving an advantage on beign a small force, like STEALTHness, but that woudl require the local nerf etc... ------------------------------------------------- If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
Kagura Nikon Infinity Enterprises Odyssey.	Posted - 2008.04.01 11:14:00 - [4] Originally by: Kerfira Originally by: Kagura Nikon Titans only ncreased blobage in this game. Worse jsut made it capital online and to kill even 6-7 carrier together you NEED a bob. They increase blobage because only thing taht can eal witht itans are only killable by blobing. I totally disagree. Titans discourage blobbing as blobbing becomes too risky. An oh, titans are not really killable by blobbing. 49- proved that.... Only caps can do it.... Originally by: Kagura Nikon THe resolution of blobign wont come by area of effect damage. Only way to solve blob is giving an advantage on beign a small force, like STEALTHness, but that woudl require the local nerf etc... If blobbing is an I-Win button because of the lag it produces, people will choose that over any advantage in being a small force. Players are herd animals that way..... The only solution for blobbing is the stick, not the carrot. on that i disagree 120% The stick wotn solve never. Because if youy dotn bring blbo you loose anyway. If you brign blbo there is a chance lag may lock your enemy and you might win. What must be done to solve this is givign the non blob a chance to in. REducing blbo chance to win makes nothign, because it is sstill the only chance to win, so will still be choosen and in fact reinforced with more ships to increase this chance a tiny bit. BTW I don 't know if people noticed this. But we have a world with so many titans that s imple group like BOB and MM if combined coudl DD even capital ships ( their combined fleets of titans can already vaporize a nidhoggur)! That is becomeing really stupid. In 6 months even using carriers will be impossible and only motherships will be usable. Can anyone really tell me this is good for the game and enjoyment of the player base? ------------------------------------------------- If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
Kagura Nikon Infinity Enterprises Odyssey.	Posted - 2008.04.01 12:49:00 - [5] Originally by: Kerfira Originally by: Traeon Titans do nothing but raise the blob to capital level. Anything smaller is discouraged to fight at all because it's pointless. Yup, that's the beauty of it. The blob of sub-capitals is discouraged. Problem at least partially solved as caps can now fight it out without the laggy presence of sub-caps. I've yet to see a cap blob capable of lagging a system out.... Originally by: Traeon In simple words so even Kerfira can understand: Against multiple titans, you do not bring ANY number of subcapitals because it's pointless. I repeat, you do not bring LESS, you don't bring ANY. What youbring is capitals. Lots of them. Numbers win here, blobbing works as good as always, nodecrashing works as good as always, nothing really changed except that subcapitals went from weak to useless. In simple words so even Traeon can understand: Sub-cap fights are still 99% of the fights that goes on in 0.0. I hardly see that as 'useless'.... And how is this good for a game where 95% of players cannot fly capitals? Why not simply forbidden < 20 M SP chars from entering null sec? The game Must focus on as many peopel as possible having fun! Titans go against this! If you have never seen a capital fleet blob a system completely you must undock more times. 100 capital fleets are not RARE anymore. And 100 carriers and moms spitting an average of 15 fighters are really much more system stressing than 300 Battleships. Also 99% of fights in 0.0 are NOT blobs are roaming gangs, so your 99% argument is void. 90% of the BLOB fights involve a large number of capital ships. Exactly because of titans. The blob would have exactly same size without titans. EXACLTY. The only difference is that you brigna cruisers instead of aproper ship if you are under threat of 7 titans. Neither I, neither no one else would ever NOT appear in battle because of the titans. They will just get cheap stuff, like BC or cheapest BS. That helps in NOTHIGN to diminish BLOB. In fact just makes worse the effect. If you have ever been at the Point Zero of a DD detonation over a fleet you know that. When a hundred ships die at same time the node get useless for at least half an hour. Titans are bad for this game on every concievable way. ------------------------------------------------- If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
Kagura Nikon	Posted - 2008.04.01 17:13:00 - [6] Originally by: maralt Edited by: maralt on 01/04/2008 17:04:14 Originally by: Voculus Quote: 2. I clearly state that the conventional fleet should not warped in range of the titans unless ofc the hostile fleet is stationary or bubbled or in a position that can be engaged out of range of the DDD. What if your target or targets are closely guarded by multiple Titans? Go home? Log out? 1. I had no idea that dreads had to fight at uber close range bud i mean im sure they can hit at max range easily with the correct fittings and thus forcing the defending support to move closer as only a few bs in the game can do the max snipe range. Also if the supporting dreads move in close to fight your now long range dreads your support fleet can engage them well out of range of the DDD. 2. Bubble the hostile conventional fleet forcing the titan to pop his own fleet if he wants to pop yours. 3. Use your own titan to pop the bubbled conventional fleet. Any other questions or do you still wanna play in easy mode?. What DREADs? You have no dreads until you explode the jammer that is guarded by 8 titans. The only way to deal with that is bring such a blob that even the titans lag to omuch to ge server respnse when they DD. In other words... crappy metagamming. Yes warping out should be the solution, problem is, its impossible since the game cannot handle 100 ships warping out at same time without a 10-20 sec lag when there are other 200 ships in system as well. And don't tell me then don bring so many ships, because the defenders alone are enough to make the node crawl. What I never understood is, why DD always seems unaffected by server lag? ------------------------------------------------- If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
Kagura Nikon Infinity Enterprises Odyssey.	Posted - 2008.04.01 17:18:00 - [7] Originally by: Kerfira Nope, after having been DD'd a few times, people in conventional ships learn to stay away. Ie. blobbing - is - prevented! These people will find something else to do while the caps slug it out (ie. don't give me the lame excuse that they'll quit because of it)..... WRONG! People don't stay away because they cannot simply sit and wait their stations to be lost. They will thrown frigates if needed. So no Blobs are NEVER solved. You sound like someone that have never been on such fights. Because what you describe don't happen. And again, you have ONLY support ships because enemy has a cyno jammer!!! And leaving is not a crap excuse , I know at least 3 persons that are rl friends that left game because of exactly this titan bullexcrement ------------------------------------------------- If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
Kagura Nikon Infinity Enterprises Odyssey.	Posted - 2008.04.01 17:39:00 - [8] Originally by: maralt Edited by: maralt on 01/04/2008 17:34:09 Originally by: Kagura Nikon Originally by: Kerfira Nope, after having been DD'd a few times, people in conventional ships learn to stay away. Ie. blobbing - is - prevented! WRONG! You should have stopped there cos it went down hill after that. Blobbing/huge scale fleet ops will always be part of eve but the titan forces the blobs/fleets to be fitted correctly, use reserves of tacklers and other ships and also to maneuver there assets properly in order to avoid the weaker ships getting DDD'd. In other words use a more tactical approach to huge scale fleet ops instead of optimal range blob spamming. and all those just increase the size of the blob. So i am right that he is wrong. Blobs do not diminish blob, just make more ships needed so more blobs more lag more all of the bad part of eve. ------------------------------------------------- If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
Kagura Nikon Infinity Enterprises Odyssey.	Posted - 2008.04.05 11:28:00 - [9] Originally by: maralt Edited by: maralt on 04/04/2008 17:20:05 Reducing it down to 200km should be the most if its gonna be reduced at all, at least then it will stop ppl from bringing a crap load of frigs and cruisers to own 0.0 and force ppl to at least improve there fleets. Personally i think its ok as it is and ppl are whining before multi titans have been tested properly. reducing it to under snaper range woudl be at least a good thing because will indeed have that effect . Givign battleshisp a fightign chance, slim but a fighting chance. PERSONALLY I woudl diminish to 180 km to be fair with all flavors of snipers (not all can fight over 200 km) ------------------------------------------------- If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
Kagura Nikon Minmatar Infinity Enterprises Odyssey.	Posted - 2008.04.16 12:51:00 - [10] Same way Mom is a super carrier. Titan should be a super dread. Just give 8 high slots 7 weapons 1 siege module, enough cap to run 2 Capital repair forever. Add a drone bay and fighter capability of a normal carrier:). done you have a terrifying ship, but FUN for both sides. ------------------------------------------------- If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough

Kagura Nikon Minmatar Infinity Enterprises Odyssey.	Posted - 2008.04.17 12:12:00 - [11] Originally by: Gamesguy Originally by: Kagura Nikon Same way Mom is a super carrier. Titan should be a super dread. Just give 8 high slots 7 weapons 1 siege module, enough cap to run 2 Capital repair forever. Add a drone bay and fighter capability of a normal carrier:). done you have a terrifying ship, but FUN for both sides. Thats quite possibly the dumbest idea so far. Yes lets make the titan worth only 2 dreads and have to enter siege mode. So it can die to 10 dreads with no way to save it. It would be as fair as the mothership is today. ALSO its 2 dreads and 1 carrier!!! And YES that is the level of power we need. We NEED titans to die much more frequently because by end of year we wil have like 100 titans in game. ------------------------------------------------- If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
Kagura Nikon Minmatar Infinity Enterprises Odyssey.	Posted - 2008.04.17 16:44:00 - [12] Originally by: Gamesguy Originally by: Kagura Nikon Originally by: Gamesguy Originally by: Kagura Nikon Same way Mom is a super carrier. Titan should be a super dread. Just give 8 high slots 7 weapons 1 siege module, enough cap to run 2 Capital repair forever. Add a drone bay and fighter capability of a normal carrier:). done you have a terrifying ship, but FUN for both sides. Thats quite possibly the dumbest idea so far. Yes lets make the titan worth only 2 dreads and have to enter siege mode. So it can die to 10 dreads with no way to save it. It would be as fair as the mothership is today. ALSO its 2 dreads and 1 carrier!!! And YES that is the level of power we need. We NEED titans to die much more frequently because by end of year we wil have like 100 titans in game. No, motherships are immune to EW and dont have to go into siege to do dps. No one will siege a titan, EVER. Because you can kill it so easilly with just 10 dreads. For 60bil cost, no one will build a titan if its just worth 2 dreads and a carrier. And WHY shoudl anythign be able to survive against 10 Dreads in close range configuration for long? BTW you didnt even cared to do the math. A titan with typical price fitting deadspace stff and Siege module would EASILY tank 10 dreads!! And no i do not think ANYTHIGN shoudl be able to withstand 20 dreads firing on you.
Kagura Nikon Minmatar Infinity Enterprises Odyssey.	Posted - 2008.04.21 11:28:00 - [13] Edited by: Kagura Nikon on 21/04/2008 11:31:59 Originally by: Gamesguy Originally by: Kagura Nikon And WHY shoudl anythign be able to survive against 10 Dreads in close range configuration for long? BTW you didnt even cared to do the math. A titan with typical price fitting deadspace stff and Siege module would EASILY tank 10 dreads!! Please post your math that allows you to survive 10 gank fitted dreads in a theoretical siege capable titan. Lets say... 40b in mods as a price cap, so no silly 5 chelm cap rechargers costing more than the titan itself. Oh and lots of things can survive 10 sieged dreads, a carrier can survive 10 sieged dreads, you just need 20 carriers repping it. Cant do that with a sieged titan now can you? Quote: And no i do not think ANYTHIGN shoudl be able to withstand 20 dreads firing on you. A carrier can, a mothership can, and if a titan cannot its going to be worthless. 3 Capital reps 3 Corpus X hardeners 2 corpus EANM. Stick all mids with officer cap recahrgers and you can sustain TWICE that in cap usage. Now add a siege mode to taht and you would have 33k dps tanked PERMANENT. Add some good drugs and you reach 38 K For those things EFT is a good tool (sicne it allows Siege module in a titan :P) And don't tell me this is an illusory setup because titans ARE fitted with dozens billions of is in modules. And 9/10 times dreads are not GANK fitted but are fitted with long ragne guns and not more than 1 damage mod. That is enough for you to hold 20 dreads logn enough to your support fleet do somethign about some fo them. ------------------------------------------------- If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
Kagura Nikon Minmatar Infinity Enterprises Odyssey.	Posted - 2008.04.24 16:40:00 - [14] Originally by: ChalSto Its also compleat rubbish to discuss this issue without the current political situation. First of all: The Doomsday weapon of the Titan-class works as from CCP intended. It prevents from Blobbing (in some way or another/see it as u want). WROGN! Completely and uterly WRONG! It does not prevent blobbing! The titan will kill you are you blobbing or not. In fact if youa re not blobbing its 100% sure you will loose because the titan WILL be used. If you are blobbing to EXTREME then you have a chance because lag makes titan pilots fearfull of throwing their ships into a grid that never loads. Titans INCREASE blobbing! In every fracking battle I have been when titan presence was confirmed the only thing resulted is MORE ships requested. Because the ONLY chance to fight a titan IS with a HUGE RIDICULOUS blob. No, Titans completely FAIL at their goal as anti blob weapons! Trying to solve people wanting to fight and have fun with the stick will never work! They will NOT stay at station and log out, they will bring more ships and go to fight, because not going to the fight is not fun, and this is a game! ------------------------------------------------- If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
Kagura Nikon Minmatar Infinity Enterprises Odyssey.	Posted - 2008.05.03 10:31:00 - [15] Originally by: lecrotta Edited by: lecrotta on 03/05/2008 01:48:14 Originally by: Angelonico Originally by: lecrotta I love the way ppl claim that multiple titans are unkillable, but then go on to list the other things needed to make them unkillable. Like a active cyno jammer or no hostile capital fleet in system or the other side having titans or the multiple titans needing to be active 23/7 to guard the jammers and on and on and on............................... Read. Think. Then post. Multiple titans in a cynojammed system ontop of the jammer/deathstar are unkillable. Not simply multiple titans. No one disputes this. READ OP (as it says nothing about jammers). THINK. THEN TROLL No need to nerf the titans then just reduce the range of the ddd to 150km or so, as it solves the problems you listed if you have a good fc. That would probably do the rtick. DD woudl still be non fun stuff. But reducing their range woudl be a very good fix already. Sicne would bring back some value to tactical positioning (If you split your sniper fleet in 3 parts for example a single titan cannot kill more than 33% of it.
Kagura Nikon Minmatar Infinity Enterprises Odyssey.	Posted - 2008.05.04 11:06:00 - [16] Originally by: Alice Atphosea Tanking 4 DD's is irrelevant considering the picture the op linked has seven Titans on it. It doesn't take much of a stretch to think that alliances will continue to build more until HICtors (and all subcapitals) simply aren't a problem anymore. Somethign more scary is that certain 3 alliances combine their titan fleets they can start DDing carriers :P
Kagura Nikon Minmatar Infinity Enterprises Odyssey.	Posted - 2008.05.08 10:16:00 - [17] Originally by: TypoNinja Originally by: HydroSan Originally by: TypoNinja :words: Spending more money than your enemy should not destroy game balance. That IS the game balance, thats how wars work, in just about any game, and real life. You spend more money to either; field a bigger force than your defender can, or a better equipped force. Or perhaps even both. If an attacker insists on moving against a defender with both a smaller force, AND a poorly equipped force, then baring a cluster** from the defenders, they will win. That is expected behaviour, that is game balance. If it was possible to kill a titan with a battleship fleet worth less than a tenth of its cost, then you'd have a game balance problem. Look heres some easy math for you. 4x titans at a total of 200 billion isk before fittings. 2,000 x battleships at 200 billion isk. Now if you dont do something stupid like warp everybody into the titans all at once its pretty easy to deal with this problem from an even footing. Lets go with the most basic of tatics, holding a reserve force. Send in your first 250 battleships, start wailing away at the cyno jammer, you'll have it down in short order. 2x titans DDD to save the cynojammer any BS not uber tanked dies, everybody else is probably in structure, POS cleans up the rest. Send in next 250 BS, Same things happens. Send in thrid group, titans cant DDD anymore, enemy support fleet shows up. use group three to engage the titans and support fleet. If the titans didn't book it as soon as their DDD was used up, tackle them. Send in group four, rip the ** out of the cyno jammer, and start hot dropping dreadnoughts in to polish off the tower, if enemy caps in the area kill them too. Group four turns its attention to enemy support fleet and helps group three kick ass. (if you find your self short of warm bodies, split group three as needed to keep the enemy support occupied while you kill the jammer.) So with the most basic of tactics it only took me 100 billion isk, and I manged to take the field against better than two to one odds, probably more like 3 to one. For that, what I accomplished was amazing, I attacked a prepared enemy defensives position that was setup to ambush me, somewhere where the odds should have easily been in the defenders favour. Of course nobody fights like that, instead a blob costing 10-20 billion in total is sent in, and then people whine on the forums about how broken a titan is. and where in hell you get 2000 BS pilots ready to fly at same time? Where in hell you get a node that can resist multiple jump ins of 200 + ships? ------------------------------------------------- If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
Kagura Nikon Minmatar Infinity Enterprises Odyssey.	Posted - 2008.05.08 21:42:00 - [18] Originally by: Dalseta Volitare Why not simple make titans loose their invunerability field while DDD'ing? That is to say a titans DDD damages it as much as it does all other ships around it. That way if you want to setoff 8 DD's at the same time you will heavily damage all your titans? lol you would need liek 40 titans to hurt another titan significantly. Titans are no danger to capital ships and absolute death to sub capitals. this is a disparity that must go away. ------------------------------------------------- If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
Kagura Nikon Minmatar Infinity Enterprises Odyssey.	Posted - 2008.05.09 16:25:00 - [19] Originally by: Knoetje Can you guys stop the whining? It's getting boring and stupid. Nerf Titans from DD'ing, remove DD's full stop, stop BoB from having more Titans, nerf BoB, bla bla bla. Now let's say this isn't about BoB or whoever and it's simply about attention seeking. Titans are nerfed more than they are and they become obsolete. Then motherships will be next because after Titans they're the most powerful ships in EvE. Then carriers followed by Dreads. Then BS's because they're overpowered. They are followed by Battlecruisers. Cruisers are next. Frigates follow them and last we're all flying noob ships. Because it takes noob ships forever to take poses down poses are removed and there is no more Sov. All skill books are removed from the game because everything over a noob frigate **es Goons and other whiners off and where do we end up? We end up with EVERYONE leaving EVE and playing upcoming games because the only people who like noob frigate blobs are Goons. Then blobs get nerfed which is followed by CCP getting a total and utter nerf right down to bankruptcy, all thanks to the immense ridiculous and childish whining. I can't build a Titan nerf them!!1whine! My fleet got DD'd and now we're broke and can't hold our space anymore because we never were able to hold it in the first place!11!losers! Nerf Titans because they're so easy to train for and build that everyone in EvE has at least 5 of these things!1!give-me-attention-please! Nerf Titans because this isn't cap ship online and we should all be flying noob ships anyway!!1stfu-leave-EVE-!1! Nerf EVEYRYTHING because I think my voice carries more weight than everyone elses as I lack attention and am too childish to admit I'm just posting here because my parents never loved me and any attention is better than none!!www.whineaboutnothing.com1 Have I missed anything and anyone whining about a game they can leave? Now please stop these extremely childish whine and cry threads about nothing. If you don't like the game leave and don't come back, all the little children complaining about everything just isn't going to get things done the way you want them to and you will be resisted fiercely. Las call for the nerf whine train departing on platform STFU. All those attention ***s can board the train leaving for WoW now. Please have your complaint at hand while boarding and do leave your luggage behind at the counter 'can I have your stuff?'. Thank you very much and kthxbye. You can use your onw logic on rever se and then its ok for CCP to adda new ship that blow up all ships and statiosn of your enemy in game with a single button press. And it woudl be ok, because if you nerfe them then its tiem to nerf titans, the n motherships then... SO STFU specially if you are unable even to build a decent argumentation. ------------------------------------------------- If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough

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